<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Lent 2 &#8211; Created to Create</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/</link>
	<description>looking for god</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:58:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1201</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1201</guid>
		<description>Nice one Cliff - love the notion of resurrection life calling me from death!

... Which reminds me of a great Jim Wallis quote re the resurrection, my paraphrase ... the resurrection was an act of civil disobedience in that the Roman seal on the tomb was broken by someone other than the appropriate Roman official - this act was punishable by death, therefore the resurrection was an act of civil disobedience punishable by death! 

... there&#039;s a radical thought for lent!

dave</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one Cliff &#8211; love the notion of resurrection life calling me from death!</p>
<p>&#8230; Which reminds me of a great Jim Wallis quote re the resurrection, my paraphrase &#8230; the resurrection was an act of civil disobedience in that the Roman seal on the tomb was broken by someone other than the appropriate Roman official &#8211; this act was punishable by death, therefore the resurrection was an act of civil disobedience punishable by death! </p>
<p>&#8230; there&#8217;s a radical thought for lent!</p>
<p>dave</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: cliffsmudge</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1200</link>
		<dc:creator>cliffsmudge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 21:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1200</guid>
		<description>Ah, Gerard Hughes. I&#039;m sorry didn&#039;t mean to become a kind of walking book of quotations, but Hughes has one of my all-time favourites:

Walk to Jerusalem (extract)
Gerard Hughes


&quot;The source of most pain is in the conflict between the reality we would like to encounter and the reality in which we find ourselves, in our inability to shape reality to our own requirements. Yet the obdurate quality of reality, its refusal to be shaped to our demands, is a blessing., because it forces us out of the prison of our own conditioning, our narrowness, and frees us from the grooves of our habitual thinking. The raising of Lazarus is not only telling of a physical miracle performed two thousand years ago, it is describing a present reality for all of us. The God who raised Lazarus is the God now holding us in being. He is constantly saying, &quot;I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me will never die.&quot; And he constantly calling each of us by name and saying &quot;Arise, come forth.&quot;He calls us through the facts in which we find ourselves. Every situation is an invitation to arise out of our imprisoning tomb and walk into freedom. Our problem is our love of the tomb, our preference for the familiar, our fear of freedom and terror at change. In pain, fear, anxiety and failure, perhaps especially in those states, we need to ask, &quot;What is God saying to me through this?&quot; Even in the darkness of despair, if we feel life is no longer worth living, we have to ask what the darkness is saying. God is not saying, &quot;Take your own life,&quot; but he is saying, &quot;Your present way of life is intolerable. Change it and live.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, Gerard Hughes. I&#8217;m sorry didn&#8217;t mean to become a kind of walking book of quotations, but Hughes has one of my all-time favourites:</p>
<p>Walk to Jerusalem (extract)<br />
Gerard Hughes</p>
<p>&#8220;The source of most pain is in the conflict between the reality we would like to encounter and the reality in which we find ourselves, in our inability to shape reality to our own requirements. Yet the obdurate quality of reality, its refusal to be shaped to our demands, is a blessing., because it forces us out of the prison of our own conditioning, our narrowness, and frees us from the grooves of our habitual thinking. The raising of Lazarus is not only telling of a physical miracle performed two thousand years ago, it is describing a present reality for all of us. The God who raised Lazarus is the God now holding us in being. He is constantly saying, &#8220;I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me will never die.&#8221; And he constantly calling each of us by name and saying &#8220;Arise, come forth.&#8221;He calls us through the facts in which we find ourselves. Every situation is an invitation to arise out of our imprisoning tomb and walk into freedom. Our problem is our love of the tomb, our preference for the familiar, our fear of freedom and terror at change. In pain, fear, anxiety and failure, perhaps especially in those states, we need to ask, &#8220;What is God saying to me through this?&#8221; Even in the darkness of despair, if we feel life is no longer worth living, we have to ask what the darkness is saying. God is not saying, &#8220;Take your own life,&#8221; but he is saying, &#8220;Your present way of life is intolerable. Change it and live.&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1199</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 20:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1199</guid>
		<description>Well - for my 10 pence... I like church where people eat together, drink beer together (why is this so high on my list!), laugh and cry in good measure, tell jokes, listen to each other, care in real ways, walk together, talk together, argue and make up, tell stories, read poems and bible stories, meditate and stay quiet, light candles occasionally on dark cold nights, listen to silence in an active way, draw pictures and make pots, take holidays together (well with some you really like!) and probably above all - know what it is to serve and love people who don&#039;t yet belong. I like the street pastor philosophy on mission and church - we want people to Belong then Believe then Behave - trouble is much of what church does is ask people to Behave; Believe and then they can Belong... I guess I am into Messy Spirituality, Scandalous Grace and a journey with the God of Surprises - to list a few of my favourite books! dave xx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well &#8211; for my 10 pence&#8230; I like church where people eat together, drink beer together (why is this so high on my list!), laugh and cry in good measure, tell jokes, listen to each other, care in real ways, walk together, talk together, argue and make up, tell stories, read poems and bible stories, meditate and stay quiet, light candles occasionally on dark cold nights, listen to silence in an active way, draw pictures and make pots, take holidays together (well with some you really like!) and probably above all &#8211; know what it is to serve and love people who don&#8217;t yet belong. I like the street pastor philosophy on mission and church &#8211; we want people to Belong then Believe then Behave &#8211; trouble is much of what church does is ask people to Behave; Believe and then they can Belong&#8230; I guess I am into Messy Spirituality, Scandalous Grace and a journey with the God of Surprises &#8211; to list a few of my favourite books! dave xx</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jonbirch</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1197</link>
		<dc:creator>jonbirch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 18:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1197</guid>
		<description>my way of dealing with it is not to attend. it works very well.
the service for jan was the most amazing experience. possibly because it didn&#039;t conform to the usual conventions and there was a focus on people and things that were just so intensely real. we sang one song, the much maligned and misunderstood &#039;jerusalem&#039;... how good was that!? a proper tune with proper poetry being sung in church. poetry, good music, people speaking about real things from the heart. i was touched in a way church never normally touches me.
the only down side, which can&#039;t be ignored was when the short (thankfully) address was given at the end. the institution, it&#039;s ways, it&#039;s intolerances, it&#039;s simplistic certainty squeezing itself into a shape where it didn&#039;t fit. honest questions and quiet, personal reflection, which is real, dangerous, and rare must somehow be wrapped up neatly, with the answer being &#039;jesus&#039;.
it didn&#039;t spoil it for me, as too much had been said and done to override it. but the problem is, every other sunday, that&#039;s all we get and we don&#039;t get the &#039;real&#039; stuff. i don&#039;t need that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my way of dealing with it is not to attend. it works very well.<br />
the service for jan was the most amazing experience. possibly because it didn&#8217;t conform to the usual conventions and there was a focus on people and things that were just so intensely real. we sang one song, the much maligned and misunderstood &#8216;jerusalem&#8217;&#8230; how good was that!? a proper tune with proper poetry being sung in church. poetry, good music, people speaking about real things from the heart. i was touched in a way church never normally touches me.<br />
the only down side, which can&#8217;t be ignored was when the short (thankfully) address was given at the end. the institution, it&#8217;s ways, it&#8217;s intolerances, it&#8217;s simplistic certainty squeezing itself into a shape where it didn&#8217;t fit. honest questions and quiet, personal reflection, which is real, dangerous, and rare must somehow be wrapped up neatly, with the answer being &#8216;jesus&#8217;.<br />
it didn&#8217;t spoil it for me, as too much had been said and done to override it. but the problem is, every other sunday, that&#8217;s all we get and we don&#8217;t get the &#8216;real&#8217; stuff. i don&#8217;t need that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sanctuarybath</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1195</link>
		<dc:creator>sanctuarybath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 17:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1195</guid>
		<description>jon - I do feel bored and irritable in church a lot but it is a choice, one can choose to commit the time to God or to being cross, last time I was bored in church I decided to spend the time doing Jesus prayer instead of cataloguing all the faults of the service/vicar/institution as is my usual wont. I don&#039;t worry so much any more about having to do what everyone else is doing so if I don&#039;t want to sing I don&#039;t. If I think the vicar is talking nonsense I think about something else. We don&#039;t have to be fettered by these contructs, they are supposed to be there to help us meet with God and if they don&#039;t, I think its OK to ignore them (as long as you aren&#039;t disrupting other people!) I&#039;m NOT saying it is OK for church to be boring by the way, just saying there are ways of dealing with it!! I just haven&#039;t really found an alternative to meeting regularly with other christians for worship, whether that be sanctuary or anywhere else. 
Dave, I thought Jan&#039;s memorial was one of the best experiences of church I&#039;ve ever had - and felt a real sense of God&#039;s presence there. Honesty definitely played a big part, but also the sense that  everyone was gathered with a shared sense of purpose, if that is the right word - sadly both these things are often lacking in conventional worship!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jon &#8211; I do feel bored and irritable in church a lot but it is a choice, one can choose to commit the time to God or to being cross, last time I was bored in church I decided to spend the time doing Jesus prayer instead of cataloguing all the faults of the service/vicar/institution as is my usual wont. I don&#8217;t worry so much any more about having to do what everyone else is doing so if I don&#8217;t want to sing I don&#8217;t. If I think the vicar is talking nonsense I think about something else. We don&#8217;t have to be fettered by these contructs, they are supposed to be there to help us meet with God and if they don&#8217;t, I think its OK to ignore them (as long as you aren&#8217;t disrupting other people!) I&#8217;m NOT saying it is OK for church to be boring by the way, just saying there are ways of dealing with it!! I just haven&#8217;t really found an alternative to meeting regularly with other christians for worship, whether that be sanctuary or anywhere else.<br />
Dave, I thought Jan&#8217;s memorial was one of the best experiences of church I&#8217;ve ever had &#8211; and felt a real sense of God&#8217;s presence there. Honesty definitely played a big part, but also the sense that  everyone was gathered with a shared sense of purpose, if that is the right word &#8211; sadly both these things are often lacking in conventional worship!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1193</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1193</guid>
		<description>Nice one Carol - so agree re conventional religous services and experience - Mike Riddel said &#039;who constrained a red blooded faith to a set of religous conventions&#039;! (or something like that!)

Trouble for me is I suspect that even if I committed to the idea of going for a walk each week (as Clare suggests) to commune with the Almighty it could become just as fettered - it seems to me the defining, constucting, limiting, knowing, organising, controlling, rota...ing etc etc of &#039;God experience&#039; often leads to a sense that he has left the building! 

Think I find Him in the surprising places, in mystery, in good questions, in a lot of people, certainly in service of others and service from others, in risk, in play and especially when ever I touch on love.

Went to a friends funeral this week (with Jon and Claire) and was moved to tears by a powerful spiritual experience (in a church building!) - guess what struck me was the honesty, love, art, happiness, people, good memories.. etc that Jan left behind - it was so moving to hear such lovely facets of her Godlyness... Miss her xx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one Carol &#8211; so agree re conventional religous services and experience &#8211; Mike Riddel said &#8216;who constrained a red blooded faith to a set of religous conventions&#8217;! (or something like that!)</p>
<p>Trouble for me is I suspect that even if I committed to the idea of going for a walk each week (as Clare suggests) to commune with the Almighty it could become just as fettered &#8211; it seems to me the defining, constucting, limiting, knowing, organising, controlling, rota&#8230;ing etc etc of &#8216;God experience&#8217; often leads to a sense that he has left the building! </p>
<p>Think I find Him in the surprising places, in mystery, in good questions, in a lot of people, certainly in service of others and service from others, in risk, in play and especially when ever I touch on love.</p>
<p>Went to a friends funeral this week (with Jon and Claire) and was moved to tears by a powerful spiritual experience (in a church building!) &#8211; guess what struck me was the honesty, love, art, happiness, people, good memories.. etc that Jan left behind &#8211; it was so moving to hear such lovely facets of her Godlyness&#8230; Miss her xx</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jonbirch</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1192</link>
		<dc:creator>jonbirch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1192</guid>
		<description>but isn&#039;t the busyness of life still infinitely preferable to sitting around being bored and feeling irritable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but isn&#8217;t the busyness of life still infinitely preferable to sitting around being bored and feeling irritable?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sanctuarybath</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1191</link>
		<dc:creator>sanctuarybath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 14:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1191</guid>
		<description>the one good thing about church (OK, there are probably others!) is that it happens every week at the same time, so there is a discipline about putting that time aside for God. If I felt that I was able to impose that discipline on myself to go for a walk every week and spend time with God that way, I guess that would be just as good if not better. But I am not disciplined and without others around me soon fall into forgetting about God altogether and becoming absorbed in the busyness of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the one good thing about church (OK, there are probably others!) is that it happens every week at the same time, so there is a discipline about putting that time aside for God. If I felt that I was able to impose that discipline on myself to go for a walk every week and spend time with God that way, I guess that would be just as good if not better. But I am not disciplined and without others around me soon fall into forgetting about God altogether and becoming absorbed in the busyness of life.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jonbirch</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1184</link>
		<dc:creator>jonbirch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 12:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1184</guid>
		<description>yep... sorry for the hijack. just over keen to show people the link. glad to see it back on track.

i too struggle to find god in the formal construct of the &#039;service&#039;... that&#039;s probably my problem, but even so, i feel less and less willing to do the &#039;church&#039; thing. i find myself suffering from all the opposites of what dave&#039;s beautiful words are about. i want to be outside, unfettered, enjoying god in the creation and in my own creativity. i think that&#039;s what i&#039;m supposed to do, even though convention says otherwise. 
one day maybe i&#039;ll do something like walk the camino... but in all honesty, i still think i&#039;ve achieved a lot when i make into and back from the city centre. so it feels like i still have a way to go. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep&#8230; sorry for the hijack. just over keen to show people the link. glad to see it back on track.</p>
<p>i too struggle to find god in the formal construct of the &#8217;service&#8217;&#8230; that&#8217;s probably my problem, but even so, i feel less and less willing to do the &#8216;church&#8217; thing. i find myself suffering from all the opposites of what dave&#8217;s beautiful words are about. i want to be outside, unfettered, enjoying god in the creation and in my own creativity. i think that&#8217;s what i&#8217;m supposed to do, even though convention says otherwise.<br />
one day maybe i&#8217;ll do something like walk the camino&#8230; but in all honesty, i still think i&#8217;ve achieved a lot when i make into and back from the city centre. so it feels like i still have a way to go. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Carole</title>
		<link>http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/lent-2-created-to-create/#comment-1183</link>
		<dc:creator>Carole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Mar 2009 11:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sanctuarybath.wordpress.com/?p=291#comment-1183</guid>
		<description>Dave, lovely wise words from you there.  Creativity certainly needs to find the space to flow - so often it is stifled by the rigours of life.  I can empathise with your experience as you looked out over the loch. For me, when I am alone with nature, it is when I feel closest to God.  I often feel that what we know as organised religion is a bit artificial - an attempt to summon up God in a human construct - trying to make God dance to our tune.  I only occasionally get a sense of God in those situations.

By the way, I so envy you your sabbatical experience.  I have, for many years, wanted to walk the Camino.  I now fear I may, at worst, &#039;shuffle off this mortal coil&#039; before I get the chance or, at best, shuffle on a couple of plastic hips...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, lovely wise words from you there.  Creativity certainly needs to find the space to flow &#8211; so often it is stifled by the rigours of life.  I can empathise with your experience as you looked out over the loch. For me, when I am alone with nature, it is when I feel closest to God.  I often feel that what we know as organised religion is a bit artificial &#8211; an attempt to summon up God in a human construct &#8211; trying to make God dance to our tune.  I only occasionally get a sense of God in those situations.</p>
<p>By the way, I so envy you your sabbatical experience.  I have, for many years, wanted to walk the Camino.  I now fear I may, at worst, &#8217;shuffle off this mortal coil&#8217; before I get the chance or, at best, shuffle on a couple of plastic hips&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
