In an article in Therapy Today, Rev Dr Gerard Byrne on being asked how he reconciles his twin roles of Catholic priest and counsellor, Gerard says “fundamentally I believe that the greatest psychologist we’ve ever had is Jesus Christ and that in the scriptures, the reports of his life and ministry, the way he behaved and lived on earth, we have the blueprints for every encounter that we will have. He made sense of it all.”
whilst I really like what Gerard’s saying about the power of Jesus’ ministry, I’m wondering to what extent counselling, healing, worship and salvation walk comfortably together?
and where is the role of the church?, should we dive wholeheartedly into a ministry of healing and counselling?, should we find ways to communicate salvation to our generation?,
or, how do we follow Jesus?
Though Jesus looked across Jerusalem with compassion, he wasn’t always ‘comforting’ to those who sort him out, and as a counsellor I’d struggle to be quite as ‘challenging’ as he was at times.
I’d very much like to hear your experiences and opinions, (bearing in mind this is a public blog, so share your experiences thoughtfully,) but do people have experiences of being challenged and finding that helpful?, or comforted and finding that healing?, and do you wish your church was more, or less, involved in healing – or that they’d just use a different approach? Or what aspects of Jesus’ work, do you feel are relevant to us today?
For myself, I’m very much aware of finding hope and compassion as I’ve grown within my church, though I doubt I’d cope with a public challenge similar to the confrontations Jesus had with women on occasions. and I can’t see myself telling a deeply religious person, who felt contaminated by dead bodies, that they ‘were like unwashed tombs’!
I feel deeply challenged by Gerard’s words, and think I’ll have to re-read the gospels, in the light of ‘blueprints for every encounter’, – and so am also very much hoping to hear your views
Interesting questions Su. I must admit I find the words “healing service” in a church a real big turn off!, infact rather than just choosing not to go I would actively sprint in the other direction!!. I grew up in a bizzare mix of churches but for a long time went to a pentecostal church, where I and my family were told to believe that if you needed healing all you needed was a big enough faith, if you didn’t get healed your faith was not strong enough. I know now that is an unhelpful, harmful message, particularly when you are 10 yr old girl with a bio-polar mother!!. But sadly 27 years on I’m not sure how much that message has changed, ( in some churches- I am not tarnishing all with the view!).
I have been reading Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell this week, I wonder if his challenge is one which fits this question- how do we as a church today rethink, re imagine, work out for today’s world the relevant, meaningful way to engage with the healing and counselling ministry?.
By: soniamain on April 18, 2009
at 8:32 am
Nice thought Su – I think that the life of Christ may well be a ‘blue print’ for us (in relation to everything – not just counselling) … but the challenge is knowing how to apply the principles, values, actions and practices that he employed appropriately in the contexts we live in and the experiences we have ourselves!!
It is all well and good wearing a WWJD bracelet but putting it into practice is somewhat more challenging than strapping it on your wrist! Discernment and sensitivity seem key to me – both in relation to the people we relate with (in counselling and in any other form of relationship) and the Spirit of God in us and others.
For me I would never claim to know the mind or purposes of God for a.n other unless I was completely sure (rarely happens!) so I would tend to work with counselling methods that check out assumptions, help people listen to themselves, explore potential solutions, respect defence mechanisms (they are usually functional!) – but perhaps with gentle challenge, suggested other actions/behaviours, refer people on, reflect back to people (tend to use NLP a bit – sorry – Neurological Linguistic Programming) etc… I hope that the principles I try to apply (incidentally not as a professional counsellor but as an interested human being – with a social work qualification!) are honouring and in line with the style and approach that I think Jesus wants of me.
Having said all that I have on a few occasions acted on what I think have been ‘Spirit led’ promptings with other people to discover that God is full of surprises and that discernment can be a gift as well as a developed skill! However, would want to qualify that statement with saying that there are far too many nutters in Christian circles playing at counselling at best and at worse playing at God and my advice is test the Spirit because not every spirit is from God – sadly it is often vulnerable people who find it hard to test others views and believe ‘the experts’ – too often at a high emotional cost and much pain (based on people I have had to untangle from ‘well meaning’ but misguided amateur Christian counsellors).
By: Dave on April 18, 2009
at 5:24 pm
ahh, Sonia, that sounds so embarassingly painful – “all you needed was a big enough faith” I only spent a small amount of time in intense and uncomfortable church circles, but enough to thoroughly enjoy ‘Portofino’, by Frank Schaeffer.
“For me I would never claim to know the mind or purposes of God for another” – that clarifies loads for me, Dave. Jesus did talk to people as though he’d just read their thoughts, so don’t want to try that one at home!. Also realise Jesus is God, so could go around ‘being God’, where as I have enough of a struggle to shake of my shell and go around ‘being human’.
yet healing happens, perhaps not in the way we’re led to expect – or by expanding our faith till it bursts like a party balloon. for me, it’s sometimes whilst I’m not looking.
By: subo on April 18, 2009
at 6:22 pm
am still musing on this one, to what extent should churches be a vital, thriving, hope-filled place?
- is it a mark of a healthy church to see people’s lives being changed?
(or is it a mark of healthy church to find the sick and suffering feel they belong?)
if we use an expansive understanding of healing, as being growing, thriving, emotionally rich people. – is a church where emotional expression is frowned upon, an unhealthy place?
is it possible to be static, just staying good?, or are we inevitably either moving forward or retreating?
and, has the alt worship movement, ditched the baby with the bath water? or are alternate groups dynamic, liberating places to belong to?
finally, what kinds of healing would you like to see happening within your church?
By: subo on April 21, 2009
at 2:08 pm
Hi Su – I think yes to all (or most) of your questions above re the church!! This is because that is exactly what differing expressions of church seem to be – in my experience. Some seem ‘on top of it and ‘coasting in God’, others seem to struggle but find redemption and others are just about hanging on – it seems to me that part of the problem we have in the 21st C is this drive for a common understanding and definition – I suspect it is meant to be a lot less tidy!
Perhaps there are factors that need to be looked for as the hallmark of ‘authentic church’ – honesty, community, service, openness, love in action, worship, pray, sacrament etc (not sure where to stop with the list!) but that there will be many ‘models’ that evolve around the circumstances of those that create them – as they are led and inspired by the Holy Spirit and as they dialogue with God and each other.
I use an exercise with groups that I train that asks people to come up with an icon for church as they experience and then an icon for how they hope church might one day be – it is interesting to be in on the discussions – deep stuff. My ideal icon is (as I have mentioned elsewhere) Buzz Light Year being told by Woody (who is strapped to his back whilst flying on a rocket!) that he is FLYING and Buzz replies ‘this ain’t flying Woody, it’s falling with style!’ I like to think of church as a place where broken people are becoming whole (in every sense) and are a redemptive community that looks out to others – as someone famous (??!!) said – ‘the church is the only organisation that doesn’t exist for the benefit of it’s members’… (To be honest – I’m not sure I like the definition completely – but I like the sentiment!)
In my 33 + years on the road (in the Way!) it seems that there are great ‘moves’ and expressions of God that excite people (some seem authentic to my mind and other bizarre!) but the thing that seems common over the years is that these ‘moves’ of God become rules and regulations of men who want (with differing motives) to see more of God in action – it seems to me that this is often the point at which God ‘moves’ on! This is why I prefer the label ‘people of the way’ to describe ‘Christians’ as it seems so much more dynamic (in the non-dynamic sense of the word dynamic! – e.g. moving, changing, growing!!)
What kind of healing would I like to see? … Any as long as it is authentic and of God and not manufactured hysteria or bunk!
Anyway – hope my ramble may be of interest – not getting too much contribution at the moment are we… shalom – dave
By: Dave on April 24, 2009
at 8:51 pm
cheers Dave, I guess I got caught up with these questions following my recent experiences, it looks though, that their not the one’s other people are thinking about.
I also have a deep hunger to find a church where I feel healing, in a relevant and real way, is happening. by this I mean a place where people are finding hope.
By: subo on April 25, 2009
at 7:46 am
Not sure others are looking at the blog much Su – perhaps Clare will review??
All the very best with your search re church – do hope and pray that you get the best leads – shalom – dave
By: Dave on April 25, 2009
at 9:23 pm
cheers Dave, it’s sometimes tricky to work out when you should be looking to put more in to your current church, and when to cut strings and go looking all over again!
By: subo on April 26, 2009
at 8:57 am
Sorry, Subo and Dave. Thing is, Subo always asks such searching questions that it takes me a long time to chew over it and find my response.
So, main point, I think if you have studied counselling, undoubtedly your faith will be reflected in how you go about your work. But I do think that some people feel that having a faith can give them licence to dabble in just about anything which can be very dangerous, indeed. I agree with Dave that we need to be able to discern, particularly the point at which tea and sympathy or prayer ministry is not enough on its own and trained help is needed. It angers me that there still persists in some quarters the view that healing does not happen due to lack of/insufficient faith. God blessed most of us with common sense, so use it.
As for your secondary questions, I am tempted to be rather cliched in my response and say that everyone, irrespective of their different needs, should feel welcome in church…then I think of the time a lady struggling with an alcohol addiction, came into the service drunk, tried to steal the offertory collection and hit a woman who tried to stop her…certainly some in the congregation found that a bit of a challenge. On a more mundane level, how often do parents of young children feel unwelcomed by their ‘church family’? I suppose this brings us to the question of ‘what kind of healing’ do we hope to see and it reminds me that some of us could do with being healed of less obvious ‘afflictions’ such as impatience, snobbery and unkindness.
I know of many church communities for whom this is a big issue, as so many are eager to consciously ‘market’ (for want of a better word) themselves to a particular audience. But my church is so dyed in the wool, traditional that we don’t ask ourselves the questions. It is, as it always has been and will probably continue in the same vain; this has its advantages and disadvantages. I think I would like to see it healed in terms of paying more than lip service to community…that the garage forecourt brand of churchgoer might stop a while and bother to talk to their neighbour in the pew, maybe learn a few names, that the ’superstars’ might humble themselves sufficiently to encourage the less confident. But I’m inclined to stick with it…well you can’t choose your family, but I supplement my friends network wherever I feel welcomed.
By: Carole on April 26, 2009
at 2:12 pm
Like Carole there is a lot to think about here Su, not something I felt i could respond to quickly. Have been musing on it all week though. I think one of the difficulties is that everyone has so many different wants/ expectations/ needs/ requirements from church- how can 1 church every meet all of those?, I’m not sure it can.
It seems a key question you are asking is how welcoming, supportive are churches, be that within a healing context or just generally. This is a good question, and of course all churches surely should be welcoming, accepting, supportive, but how often does this fall on just 1 or 2 people?. How often is it expected to be led from the leaders/ the vicars?. I think we all need to take responsibility in the churches we are in to be supportive, welcoming, open. Sounds easy but in reality we are often so busy, tied up with other things, our own issues that actually to do this, to think about others, to be gracious, to be kind and loving is a hard thing to achieve all the time.
By: soniamain on April 26, 2009
at 3:53 pm
cheers for your comments Carol and Sonia, it’s been amazing for me to realise how different other’s ideas are, so now want to reply in more detail
By: subo on April 27, 2009
at 7:01 am
hi again, am aware this feels highly important to me, and therefor, maybe about the kind of thing I want to get involved with, and is just less interesting to others, in which case I apologise for raising this topic on this blog
perhaps I should clarify, Rev Dr Gerard Byrne is working exclusively with church leaders, providing input in initial training, reviews and on-going support. so is coming from a position of empowering people already in leadership, to develop their spiritual and self awareness
perhaps I’m confusing personal development, spirituality and exploring our human failings with ‘healing’, I am not looking for dramatic, physical healing, although I do know this happens at times
what I’m interested in is our inner lives, and was assuming this is relevant to everyone, (apologies, my assumption). whilst at college (studying counselling) we were constantly challenged about our own personal development, and also given substantial info, from several sources, about Co-Dependancy, since it’s seen as important within counselling to make sure you are not getting caught up in stuff that might make things worse for clients.
recently I’ve begun exploring co-dependency for myself, and have been excited and awe-struck to join a group where people are looking at the way their behaviour impacts others. As CoDA is a spiritual path, and much of the work your doing is around asking God or your Higher Power to lead you, I’ve found it an exciting development to my faith.
CoDA uses resources developed for meetings, and so is not of any extra effort for the people giving service to ensure CoDA is there for others.
I think I got confused, as some of the churches I’ve been involved in, and many of the books I read about my faith, explore developing your spiritual and self-awareness, so in my excitement about what I find in CoDA I’m assuming this could be a regular part of church life, perhaps a way of understanding part of what happens in communion?
On sunday I went to an ordinary anglican service, I very much enjoyed being there and engaging with the service, which does raise the question for me, about how much of ‘ordinary’ Christian experience we have let go of in charismatic and alternative services? perhaps I’m just getting old, there is another part of me, though, that does want to talk about what we do in contemporary settings, and ask if we are getting it about right?
By: subo on April 27, 2009
at 12:52 pm
Hi, just catching up with the blog after a bit of a busy week – having just read all the above my head is reeling! Lots of interesting thoughts. One thing I think I am picking up from you Su (correct me if I am wrong!) is the tension between one’s personal faith/development journey and one’s corporate faith/development journey. I relate when you talk about the excitement of finding something which helps your personal development – and then wanting to think about how that ties in with ‘church’ or your community. For me the tension between the personal and the communal can be a source of real frustration as well as joy. Frustration comes for me when I am moving and my community aren’t, or vice versa, and when I feel unable to share my experiences in a way which elicits understanding or grows relationship. Sometimes it feels like its so hard to connect with others that it isn’t even worth bothering! Other times there just isn’t the space to share. But when there is a functioning two way relationship between the way I am changing and the way my community is changing then it is really faith building.
By: Clare on May 1, 2009
at 4:29 pm
thanks for your thoughtful words Clare. I don’t know what to do with this sense this is really important
it’s definitly something I need to reveiw, it feels like a big hole in by life, as though I’m just hungry and not finding any thing to eat
even that dosen’t get at how important this feels to me
By: subo on May 3, 2009
at 6:37 pm
I wonder if you were thinking of that theme of hunger (consciously or otherwise) when you selected the photo for your post?!!! I must say the cake looks rather yummy…! if only our spiritual and emotional hunger was as easy to interpret and to satisfy as the one which originates in our stomachs. Recognising the emptiness is painful, but I suppose a necessary step towards working out what will fill it?
For me, relationships are everything, when they don’t function it is deeply wounding. I think actually, that is the way we are meant to be. Not wounded, I mean, but deeply in need of one another. I think we are communal animals, and there is a deep loss and longing within us for that community which we find so hard to sustain in this age.
Sorry probably rambling now it is getting late!
By: Clare on May 5, 2009
at 10:30 pm
“I think we are communal animals, and there is a deep loss and longing within us for that community which we find so hard to sustain in this age.”,
Yep, I think thats spot on Clare
By: subo on May 5, 2009
at 10:39 pm